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I've always said you don't want to get into a battle of wits if you're unarmed.

If KOAT-TV's "Conversations with Candidates" had been an actual debate between Sam Bregman and Deb Haaland, the moderator would have stopped it after the third round of questions.

After watching the 30-minute program that aired April 30, I see why Haaland has been knock-kneed scared to debate her Democratic gubernatorial opponent.

Haaland, a figurehead of the radical left, is uncomfortable on her feet, often unable to answer questions with anything other than memorized talking points.

Bregman, Bernalillo County鈥檚 district attorney, is a successful courtroom litigator who鈥檚 made a living thinking on his feet.

The most illuminating portions of the KOAT forum were the questions Bregman and Haaland were allowed to ask each other through station news anchor Miguel Marquez.

Bregman asked about the infamous jet ride from Santa Fe to Washington, D.C., in September 2014 that landed Haaland in the Jeffrey Epstein case files released by the U.S. Department of Justice earlier this year.

"We have said consistently that I did not fly on Jeffrey Epstein's plane," Haaland responded. "That is an outright lie."

Wait, what? Play that back. Was it all just a mushroom trip aboard a magic carpet?

Oh yeah, that's right, it wasn't "Jeffrey Epstein's plane," it was a jet chartered by one of Epstein's companies and personally arranged by Epstein and his longtime pilot. There were apparently no teenage flight attendants in tank tops, no Warhead wrappers in the ashtrays, no big "JE" painted on the jet's tail fin. Who could have possibly known about the Epstein connection?

The best defense Haaland has is that she's habitually unaware, hence why I've affectionately nicknamed her "Know-nothing Haaland."

Moreover, as Haaland was intent to point out on KOAT, it was her 2014 gubernatorial running mate, Gary King, who contacted Epstein's people and requested a private jet to a D.C. fundraiser. Haaland apparently didn't raise any questions along the way about a possible association with the convicted sex offender and just went along for the ride like a lemming over the cliff, blissfully unaware of who had arranged the flight for her and King and their staff members in an obvious exercise of: "Don't ask, don't tell."

"It was not my campaign, it was Gary King's campaign, and I believe that Gary King has done numerous interviews that have stated that fact," Haaland continued in the KOAT forum, which was a sharp departure from the traditional debates local TV stations host every gubernatorial election year, and which Haaland has declined this year. "And so, I've said that time and again."

Bregman also asked Haaland about her friendship with disgraced former Congressman Eric Swalwell of California, but Haaland didn't mention her former House Judiciary Committee colleague in her response.

Another illuminating moment occurred later when Bregman, again through the forum host, asked why Haaland reported a net worth of zero dollars while Interior secretary despite being paid more than $1 million over six years as a member of Congress and Cabinet secretary.

Forbes estimated Haaland's net worth at zero dollars in 2021 after reviewing her financial disclosure and public records. She told the "Today" show in 2019 she didn't even have a savings account. The year before her election to Congress in 2018 she collected about $9,300 of unemployment from New Mexico, Forbes reported.

Just last September, the New Mexico Taxation & Revenue Department placed a $7,477.60 lien on her property. According to the Sept. 16 claim notice publicly available on the Bernalillo County Clerk鈥檚 website, Haaland owed gross receipts taxes for filing periods between June 30, 2013, and Dec. 31, 2017. Penalties and interest on the back taxes exceeded $3,200.

The county released the lien on Nov. 13, 2025, after Haaland paid the eight-year-old back taxes, records show.

Haaland explained on KOAT she earned an annual congressional salary of $174,000 for her one full two-year term in the U.S. House, but blew through her meager wages like a sailor on shore leave.

"I did have expenses," she explained, somewhat. "I had to buy another house or pay rent when I was in Washington, D.C., and so, you know you do have living expenses even though you make a salary from the federal government."

As far as her New Mexico home valued at more than $1 million, Haaland apparently had a terrible lawyer when she got divorced in February 2025 after a three-year marriage to her longtime partner.

"It was public that I got divorced and we sold our house," she said on KOAT. "The house was not under my name, it was under my former husband's name. It was his house. And so, these are all issues that I'm happy to discuss with anyone at length because I am very transparent about how I operate and how I put myself forward."

It's good that Haaland is happy to discuss her finances and judgment at length, because her indigency in her 60s and questionable ethics are sure to linger through November if she prevails in the June 2 Democratic primary.

She'll need to spend the next six months explaining how she landed herself in the Epstein files, on Swalwell's friends list, and on the dark side of the entire Bregman family after doxing their homes on her campaign website.

It's still unclear if Haaland approved the publication of Bregman family property information on her campaign website, and what corrective actions have been taken other than deposting the property information that included the Assessor Office's parcel ID number of the Albuquerque home of Bregman's 88-year-old mom.

Haaland didn't address the doxing during the KOAT forum. I'm about 50-50 on whether Know-nothing Haaland knew anything about it in advance. She is a little hands-off, more a spiritual figurehead than a political strategist.

Bregman said during the forum that Haaland hasn't apologized. I'd like to see Bregman's mom cut a TV ad demanding an apology from Haaland herself, not just a statement from Haaland鈥檚 out-of-state paid spokesperson.

Another takeaway from the KOAT forum was how uncomfortable, stiff and rehearsed Haaland remains in front of the camera, even after decades on the political stage.

Bregman, on the other hand, exudes confidence. He's comfortable in front of a camera or audience and shows a willingness to engage in exchanges and consider alternate perspectives. You can see the wheels spinning in Haaland's head as she combs through progressive talking points before answering a question.

The Haaland campaign has learned all too well from the 2024 Biden campaign about how the 46th president effectively ended his half-century political career with a single disastrous debate four months before the 2024 presidential election. The safer play for the Haaland team is to give her an Ambien, rely on millions of dollars of out-of-state donations to fund multiple daily TV ads, and keep the sleepwalking candidate away from cameras and reporters as much as possible.

New Mexico doesn't need a governor who lacks awareness, financial literacy and never learned the value of saving money. We need a winner, like our last two governors, Michelle Lujan Grisham and Susana Martinez, not a lifelong community organizer with a checkered past and no bank account.

Additionally, if Haaland is coronated governor, primarily due to her identity, it would fuel the winds of secession in southeast New Mexico like a fireball. They'll never stand for her radical left policies like the Green New Deal, trust me. I don't know what they'd do in the Oil Patch, but it would be a political trainwreck.

Electing Haaland and implementing her neo-Marxist policies would rip this state apart along the length of the Rio Grande. Red counties east of the river would become more red, more disenfranchised, more ostracized and more disconnected from the Metro region, culturally and commercially. If it's mathematically possible, the state as a whole would drop from 50th to 51st in so many categories, particularly involving crime, poverty and population growth.

Bregman, a centrist with strong law enforcement credentials, has the potential to unite divided regions from Chama to Las Cruces with common sense solutions to access to healthcare, fixing CYFD, improving education, more renewable energy, fixing crumbling roads across New Mexico and preventing more building collapses in Albuquerque, and addressing stagnant population growth in a state whose best days appear in the rearview mirror 60 years ago when they built real stuff in Albuquerque.

As chair of the Governor's Organized Crime Prevention Commission, he brings 25 years of experience as a prominent criminal defense attorney and eight-plus years as prosecutor. He's played in both leagues, like his MLB son, and is the leading voice on violent juvenile crime reform. I'll take that, thank you, and so will the first responders and tribes that have endorsed him because of his record.

"At a time when Native Americans across the country are demanding justice and representation, Sam is the only candidate who has consistently shown up and delivered," the governor of Sandia Pueblo said last year when the Pueblo endorsed Bregman, an endorsement that made national news and exposed divergent views about Haaland that had been dormant for years among our Native communities.

Bregman is the best mainstream candidate New Mexico Democrats now have, the best they can offer in November to retain the Governor's Office. Haaland spells trouble for Democrats and could make November's election competitive for Republicans. She's just too divisive. And then there's the train wreck if she wins.

All the above and more is why I wholeheartedly endorse Sam Bregman for governor in the Democratic primary.

Jeff Tucker is a Journal columnist, former Opinion editor and a member of the Journal鈥檚 Editorial Board. He can be reached a jtucker@abqjournal.com.